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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number

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722 for the 7th of august

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2022

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for all you numerologists out there what

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is the significance of 22 i have to

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wonder it's richard saunders here coming

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to you from sydney australia what's on

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this week's show i interview my old

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friend ben radford the skeptical

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investigator from the united states from

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albuquerque new mexico

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where they shot breaking bad and better

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call saul i know because some years ago

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when i was visiting ben he took me to

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one of the filming locations ben

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is going to talk to us about his new

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book

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america

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the fearful

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and to quote the blurb from amazon

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national panics about crime immigrants

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police and societal degradation have

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been pervasive in the united states of

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the 21st century many of these fears

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begin as mere phantom fears but are

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systematically amplified by social media

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news media bad actors and even

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well-intentioned

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activists

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ben tells us all about his book and the

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thinking behind it coming up at the top

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of the show

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following that it's part two of the

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book of tim

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picking up from the week before last

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about perpetual motion

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and this is a reading from the skeptic

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magazine entitled

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never-ending story

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following that it's another skeptical

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poem by

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our great mate jim wilshere

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jim wilshere who we remember with

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tremendous affection this week jim will

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read his poem

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mostly ghostly and there's a few more

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skeptical poems by jim coming up in the

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coming weeks

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then to round off the show it's a dive

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into trove

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where we look at the day

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that adelaide the city of adelaide in

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south australia

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was

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miraculously not

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engulfed by a giant tidal wave and

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wrecked by an earthquake as predicted at

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the time

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by an astrologer

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panic in the streets find out more about

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that in the trove segment at the end of

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the show

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no matter where you are listening to

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this around the world and no matter what

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time

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i even do this myself i might be

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re-listening to the show afterwards to

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catch up on on the show it's a bit funny

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when you're producing the show you don't

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always absorb it

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and i find myself dozing off do you doze

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off do you find yourself dozing off to

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podcasts i do is that a good thing or a

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bad thing i don't know it's time for me

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to run downstairs in that case run

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downstairs and have some pumpkin soup

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pumpkin soup

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with crusty bread and butter while i do

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that i hope you enjoy the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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it's mike it's all it's all smoking

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mirrors ben

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it's all spoken

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[Music]

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ben radford all the way from albuquerque

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new mexico i'm did enjoy visiting you

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about three years back we went hunting

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for ufos and we found one which

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surprised me we went hunting for great

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uh food on route 66 and we found some

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which didn't surprise me at all great to

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see you my friend yes it's wonderful

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seeing you i i enjoyed tuning in to your

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uh your occasional snippets and videos

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and things online so it's uh it's always

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lots of fun and i i guess uh you know

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there was a

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all sorts of uh shenanigans going on and

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and conferences and stuff i've been

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swamped with work myself but uh i'm glad

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it's all point pulling together that's

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good that's good to hear that's good to

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hear and um well congratulations on your

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recent birthday i'm sorry i couldn't uh

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be there with you in person for people

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who who uh who couldn't make it in

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person such as you i did ask for people

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to send in uh small video clips and

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yours uh was among the highlights it was

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just beautifully done it was clever as

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hell i it was this

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and most of the people in the room knew

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you yeah many of you knew you personally

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and so it was just people were just

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giggling left and right so it was uh it

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was great having you there virtually if

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not in person well to let our listeners

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in on the secret uh i sent ben a

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birthday greeting video he could they

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his friends could play for him

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but uh ben you you know according to my

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video you sent me to loch ness and there

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i was by the sydney opera house looking

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for the loch ness monster so i got a big

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i got a bit confused along the way

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you just had to sort of like yeah so

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yeah here we are and it was just it was

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just so you just you just had the

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straight face you just it was just done

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perfectly so it was a lot well done it

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was the next best thing to being there

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but i'm sorry i missed that now before

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we get on to the topic of this interview

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which is

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yet another ben radford book my goodness

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me yet another ben radford book

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how is your uh your podcast you do with

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the celestia and pascal squaring the

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strange how's that traveling it is still

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coming along uh nicely in fact we uh we

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just passed our fifth year uh we our

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first episode was uh honestly entirely

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coincidentally on april fool's day april

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1st

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um again that was

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nobody planned it it just happened to be

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there we've just finished um

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five years and uh we're we'll be

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recording uh

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another one in fact uh later this

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evening or my evening your morning or

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whatever it is so it's uh we're coming

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along fine that's really good to hear

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because i love i love the program

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it uh it never fails to entertain and

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always an interesting topic and i love

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the fact how it's developed over the

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years so congratulations and it's always

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great to hear pasqual and celestia too

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but however let's get back to the topic

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in hand i have not

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have not had a chance to read your

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latest book although i do enjoy reading

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your books i have several on the shelf

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here next to me

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america is it's called the america the

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fearful

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yes

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strange title ben it's a strange title

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it's a strange title it's a strange

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topic um the the uh the subtitle is

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media and marketing of national panics

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the publisher and i went back and forth

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on on what to call it and we sort of

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ended up settling on that but

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it's sort of uh it's a bit odd because

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you know as as you know i'm probably

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best known for my investigation into

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weird things in urban legends and ghosts

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and chupacabras and things like that

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um but much of what i do in skepticism

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is also media literacy

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and of course i did the book media myth

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makers

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some i don't know 20 years or something

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ago i think my efforts have always been

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sort of bifurcated towards

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on one hand i i think it's important and

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you know dan lokton and i have talked

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about this and you and i have talked

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about this

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is it it won't do to simply ignore the

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so-called mysterious woo-woo paranormal

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stuff yeah

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right it's it's it won't do to say well

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this is all too silly we can't you know

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we shouldn't waste our time because

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people believe these things people spend

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their time and effort on so

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so on one hand you know i i'm a very

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firm believer in yes these these

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so-called weird mysterious paranormal

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unexplained mysteries are definitely

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worthy of investigation at the same time

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uh not everybody is concerned with

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with with the psychics and and

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ghost and chupacabras and uh on another

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level uh we need to also be focusing on

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media literacy and critical thinking and

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so that's sort of the

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those are the two halves and this is

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sort of the my work in the second half

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well it's a it's a very good point you

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make and it's an old argument it's an

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old story there are people who consider

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that what you and i

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are mainly interested in

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is it old hat is it is it old news is it

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is it

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something from the past are we you know

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recycling old stuff

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and my answer is no because there are

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thousands of people generation after

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generation of people who still go to

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psychics who still go to clairvoyance

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who still believe in

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all sorts of what we we call

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probably unfairly nonsense i know it to

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the people who truly believe sincerely

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it's not nonsense it's their reality i

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have to understand that

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but it's stuff that keeps needing to be

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addressed generation after generation

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because it's not like we fixed it 10

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years ago absolutely no i i could not

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agree more and that's uh i think there

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was an analogy i think it was all spread

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to camp made it uh he talks about

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the the work of skepticism is being

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analogous to taking out the garbage uh

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it needs to be done and if you if you

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don't take it out there's just more the

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next day yeah so it can be a thankless

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task it can be you know ridiculed you

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mean skeptics but at the end of the day

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i like to think and hope to think that

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we're actually making a change in the

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world somewhere no we are i mean without

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question we are it's just we

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can't expect to ride in like

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the great night on the on the white

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horse and vanquish our foes it just

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doesn't work that way but let's get back

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to the book let's get back to the look

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what are some of the topics what are

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some of the topics we keep these

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wonderful side tracks with ben radford

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it's i love it but what are some of the

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topics you do cover in the book so

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there's a couple things that i i

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and i should i should preface this by

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saying that originally the manuscript

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for this book was a quarter of a million

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words

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um and i had actually written it partly

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with uh celestia celeste reward my

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co-host and friend uh on scoring the

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strange

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um and unfortunately just i i took it to

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a couple of publishers and they looked

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at it and they said we don't publish

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phone books

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basically

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like i'm i'm sure it's lovely ben uh

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00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:27,839
we're not going to publish a quarter

279
00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:29,360
million words and frankly no one else

280
00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:30,480
will

281
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so i was like oh because i had i had

282
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spent literally years you know trying to

283
00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:37,040
construct this sort of overarching you

284
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know these themes sort of connecting

285
00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:40,880
these chapters and it sort of

286
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:42,720
but in the end i had to cut it by

287
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:45,040
two-thirds um and the result is america

288
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:46,800
they're fearful and what i tried to do

289
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:49,279
was sort of keep some of the main uh

290
00:10:53,269 --> 00:10:51,360
some of the main needy

291
00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:53,279
themes uh in critical thinking and

292
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:55,600
skepticism literacy sort of

293
00:10:58,870 --> 00:10:57,360
running through there hopefully at some

294
00:11:01,509 --> 00:10:58,880
point i'll be able to publish the other

295
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:01,519
the other two thirds in in follow-up

296
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:03,839
of some sort so yeah basically the the

297
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:06,320
the approach is that you know a lot of

298
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:08,560
what you and i do and i don't know this

299
00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:10,720
is really obvious to to many people

300
00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:12,240
outside of skepticism

301
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:14,480
but in many cases we are

302
00:11:19,269 --> 00:11:16,240
our role is to

303
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:19,279
uh help calm people's fears yes again

304
00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:20,640
it's sort of a sort of an odd way of

305
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:22,800
looking at but it's true and and we've

306
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:24,720
both seen this and so on on one level

307
00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:26,320
it's as simple as

308
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:28,160
it's as basic as telling people there

309
00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:29,839
really isn't this boogeyman right there

310
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:31,839
no there really isn't ghosts you and i

311
00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:33,120
have both dealt with people who believe

312
00:11:37,269 --> 00:11:35,360
they've been cursed absolutely and

313
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:37,279
people who are genuinely frightened and

314
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:39,200
they're afraid of magical powers and

315
00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:40,320
they're afraid of spells and they're

316
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:41,920
afraid of ghosts and things like that

317
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:44,560
yes yes really yes yeah and and so so on

318
00:11:48,310 --> 00:11:46,560
one level part of our job is telling is

319
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:48,320
trying to reassure people like this is

320
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:50,000
you know i know you're afraid of this

321
00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:52,320
and i understand why but you know please

322
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:53,600
look at it from this point of view and

323
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:56,320
sort of hope hopefully get way out of it

324
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:58,880
at the same time there are of course

325
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:00,720
very real fears again sort of taking

326
00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:03,360
that out of the the paranormal context

327
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:06,639
and looking at a society-wide fear um

328
00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:08,959
and and so i was looking at that sort of

329
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:10,720
seeing the different ways in which uh

330
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:13,760
fears are used uh by different people

331
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:17,360
entities um you know in in society and

332
00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:19,760
culture so you know one obvious one is

333
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:22,000
politicians right it's no

334
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:23,680
it's not a secret you don't need to read

335
00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:26,160
machiavelli to know that politicians use

336
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:28,320
fear all the time uh and during the time

337
00:12:32,629 --> 00:12:29,839
that i was writing the book or part of

338
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:32,639
the time uh for example uh one of many

339
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,240
examples one of them was

340
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:37,200
uh people may remember um donald trump's

341
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:40,160
uh uh concerns over the migrant caravan

342
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:42,959
oh yes yes there was you know you know

343
00:12:46,629 --> 00:12:44,959
you know terrifying news stories coming

344
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:46,639
out of fox news other places talking

345
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:47,680
about how

346
00:12:51,910 --> 00:12:49,920
uh trump was uh telling people oh my god

347
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:51,920
there's these there's these mic these

348
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:53,519
caravan of migrants coming up from

349
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,040
central america

350
00:13:00,150 --> 00:12:57,279
um and coming up primarily uh from

351
00:13:01,829 --> 00:13:00,160
honduras and el salvador up to mexico

352
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:01,839
and there was all this drumbeat of like

353
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:03,120
oh my god what are they gonna do once

354
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:04,240
they get here they're gonna bring

355
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:05,680
diseases they're to

356
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:07,839
go in murder sprees raping sprees it was

357
00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:11,120
just this transparent effort to demonize

358
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:12,880
uh immigrants and these were immigrants

359
00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:14,240
who hadn't even they hadn't even come to

360
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:16,000
america's borders yet

361
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:16,800
yeah

362
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,079
uh you know poverty and crime uh in

363
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:24,399
their home uh home cities and

364
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:26,560
countries again primarily el salvador

365
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:29,200
and honduras and mexico and it was just

366
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:31,519
interesting to me how these migrants who

367
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:33,519
were coming here trying to get to the us

368
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:35,200
for a better life were being

369
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:38,160
characterized uh as again you know

370
00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:40,399
disease riddled and you know entirely

371
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:42,639
deviant and in mass murders and what was

372
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:44,800
interesting was that was as soon as that

373
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:47,680
theme and that that motif um wasn't

374
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,160
useful trump abandoned it just like on a

375
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:52,560
dime suddenly fox news wasn't talking

376
00:13:56,069 --> 00:13:54,320
about it trump wasn't talking about it

377
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:56,079
was no longer useful and again there are

378
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:57,440
many many examples but that's sort of

379
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:58,880
one of the more more and more higher

380
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,240
profile ones

381
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:02,480
um and this is so good there's there's

382
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:03,920
politicians and

383
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:06,079
on the level for for example advertisers

384
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:08,720
right advertisers uh often use fear they

385
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,279
use fear you know uh is your is your

386
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:13,199
breath fresh enough are you are you

387
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:14,560
handsome enough

388
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:19,839
you know there's always there's all

389
00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:21,199
these different uh

390
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:22,959
all these different people and and

391
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:25,120
entities and corporations who

392
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:26,880
it's not always obvious and sometimes

393
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:28,320
it's sort of subtle but they're all

394
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,160
trying to nudge us one way the other

395
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:32,160
often times using fear

396
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:34,079
and then the other approach that i bring

397
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:36,079
to is of course folklore as you know i'm

398
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,240
a folklorist and i study yes

399
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,560
urban legends and rumors and and things

400
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:43,199
like that and and so in trying and

401
00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:46,240
trying to frame these fears i would i

402
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:48,639
begin the book by talking about folklore

403
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:50,079
and fairy tales

404
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:51,680
and it's easy to sort of think of fairy

405
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:54,399
tales as being um you know dusty old

406
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:56,399
legends about you know prince charming

407
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:58,399
and and uh and snow white

408
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,560
uh from hundreds of years ago but in

409
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:02,639
fact fairy tales are very much with us

410
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:04,720
they pervade our discourse they pervade

411
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:07,120
our ideas they prevent our metaphors uh

412
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:09,120
one thing about about fairy tales is it

413
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:10,720
they're binary right there's there's a

414
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:12,959
hero and there's a villain yes the big

415
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:15,680
bad wolf is the big bad wolf there's no

416
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:17,760
two ways about it right it's not the

417
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:20,399
ambiguously bad wolf it's not the you

418
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:23,440
know the misunderstood wolf

419
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:24,959
the little red riding hood sort of

420
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:27,279
purplish but you know but no that's

421
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,519
that's part of it and so and so

422
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:31,680
you know so we grow up with these fairy

423
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:33,680
tales these these sort of sort of

424
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:36,240
compact narrative stories that are very

425
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:37,440
simple to understand they're easy to

426
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:39,680
understand there's a goodbye there's the

427
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:42,160
bad guys uh everything is nice what is

428
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,399
good and evil is evil yes yeah it's all

429
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,320
it's all tidied up you know at the end

430
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:48,240
of the story uh and and of course we see

431
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:50,720
this also on on television films right

432
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:53,199
we see we see an hour-long television

433
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:55,920
show well the the plot is introduced uh

434
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:58,160
early on there's the conflict and then

435
00:16:01,590 --> 00:15:59,680
by the end of the show

436
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:01,600
not always but often times

437
00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:03,199
there's a conclusion and you know tune

438
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:05,120
in next time for another one but sort of

439
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:06,720
to go back to the hero the heroes and

440
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:08,160
the villains one thing that happens of

441
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,120
course

442
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,199
is that in in real life when we when we

443
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:13,600
sort of use these stories to model what

444
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,680
we're thinking about in real life and

445
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:17,519
the things that we're seeing in the news

446
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:19,839
again we go it goes back to good and bad

447
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:22,079
and and heroes and villains and who is

448
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:23,759
typically cast as the villain in these

449
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:25,600
stories it's immigrants it's the bad

450
00:16:30,629 --> 00:16:28,320
people it's uh it's people who are

451
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,639
deviant or marked as deviant um right

452
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:32,560
and they're sort of and so this is why

453
00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:34,480
in my book i don't go too deep into it

454
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:35,920
because i think it's in some ways it's

455
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:37,199
kind of obvious and i don't want to

456
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:39,199
patronize people but but there's a very

457
00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:41,680
real element of the boogeyman

458
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:44,399
in these stories and you know the media

459
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:46,560
very much play up the role of of

460
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:49,040
a boogeyman uh in in what we call

461
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:50,800
marketing the national panics that's

462
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,880
interesting because i mean yes the media

463
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:54,399
will do this because

464
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:55,839
i mean a lot of the media i've dealt

465
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:57,600
with here in this country are looking

466
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:58,959
for a simple

467
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:00,959
narrative to tell people

468
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:04,000
and the simplest narrative of all is

469
00:17:08,949 --> 00:17:07,120
person x or group x is bad

470
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:08,959
yes and this is what we're trying to do

471
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:11,520
about it or look as as you say this

472
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:12,799
caravan

473
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:14,880
i remember that at the time and then and

474
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:16,720
i do remember the news sort of just

475
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:19,039
peeted out about it but it was um i

476
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:20,559
could see how that

477
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:22,000
could have been taken advantage of

478
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:24,640
because it's great unknown hordes of

479
00:17:28,950 --> 00:17:27,360
people heading our way you know call to

480
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:28,960
action sort of thing

481
00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:31,200
absolutely and on squaring the strange

482
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:33,280
uh i think it was late last year we did

483
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:35,039
it we did a three or four part episode

484
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:37,280
on moral panics uh if people are

485
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:39,760
interested um and we sort of go into it

486
00:17:45,110 --> 00:17:42,880
more depth there but one thing i i i saw

487
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,120
over and over again was these boogeymen

488
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,120
uh these people being cast

489
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:50,000
as boogeymen just in in case after case

490
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:53,039
after case and oftentimes in parallel

491
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:54,160
with that

492
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:56,400
there was this sort of constant drumbeat

493
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:58,480
of negativity yes but basically in a

494
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:59,760
nutshell

495
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:01,840
and i talk i talk about this to some

496
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:03,760
extent in my book media myth makers

497
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:05,520
which you mentioned earlier but of

498
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:06,880
course you know

499
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,559
if you look you know if you look at the

500
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:10,080
ways in which

501
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,760
people understand the world and the

502
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:13,280
information we get

503
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,120
much of it is from is from the news

504
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:17,440
media and then and then not just news

505
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:19,200
but then social media which is which

506
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:20,880
filters the news media and in each of

507
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:23,520
those cases you have the you have a

508
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:24,640
selection

509
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:26,880
towards the negative the disastrous the

510
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:29,600
catastrophic right and so it's not that

511
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:32,559
good news never makes the news but it

512
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:34,480
it rarely uh it's got to be super good

513
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:35,360
news

514
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:38,480
it'll be 40 minutes of negativity and

515
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,559
mass murders and disasters and then

516
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:42,400
there'll be like here's 20 seconds of

517
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:44,480
something good that happened isn't that

518
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:46,160
normally the funny

519
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:48,160
fuzzy story at the end of the bulletin

520
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:50,320
yeah and finally before we go this

521
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:52,559
little dog was caught up a tree chasing

522
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:54,799
a cat but the local you know

523
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:55,520
or

524
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:57,679
what we get here i know you you've heard

525
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:59,200
this before it always makes you laugh we

526
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:01,200
get the story well what oh it's the end

527
00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:04,160
of the news well only in america here's

528
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:06,160
this guy or whatever

529
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:08,160
right you just had 40 minutes of florida

530
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:10,640
man and now you have all in america did

531
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:16,150
i don't know what your equivalent would

532
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:18,480
be where you are they might say only in

533
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:20,400
canada or only in florida

534
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:21,440
yeah yeah

535
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:23,840
well but what's interesting is is so

536
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:26,400
again each of these levels there is a

537
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:29,280
selection bias or a confirmation bias to

538
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:30,960
use a psychological term

539
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:32,240
for the negative

540
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:33,440
and so

541
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:36,080
and it's in again it's it's sort of

542
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:37,679
obvious but i think i think it's worth

543
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:39,679
pointing out that the news media could

544
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:41,919
report on anything in the world and just

545
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:43,840
by their nature and this they're not

546
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:45,760
they're not intending to focus on the

547
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:47,120
negative but just

548
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,720
the nature of what is newsworthy is

549
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:50,160
often something bad

550
00:19:54,470 --> 00:19:52,320
it's a war it's a disaster it's a flood

551
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,480
it's a it's a it's a mass murder and so

552
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:57,200
the news media selectively choose

553
00:20:02,710 --> 00:19:59,200
some of the most dangerous threatening

554
00:20:05,190 --> 00:20:02,720
you know fear panic panic infused things

555
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:05,200
and then when when social media gets a

556
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:07,280
hold of it when it's put on on twitter

557
00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:10,240
and instagram and facebook that further

558
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:12,799
focuses and distills that into even more

559
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:15,440
frightening stories and things like that

560
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:17,360
and then also think about the the

561
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:19,120
psychology right so

562
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:21,520
most people we remember

563
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,600
um the insults much better than remember

564
00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:24,880
the compliments

565
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:27,600
right we we can hear we can go all week

566
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,760
and we can hear a dozen people say oh

567
00:20:33,909 --> 00:20:31,840
you did a great show i love your work

568
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:33,919
this and that you have one person that

569
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:34,720
says

570
00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:37,120
you know you really screwed that up yeah

571
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:39,200
that's the one it's human nature isn't

572
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,280
it yeah i mean we do pick up on these

573
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:43,440
things because maybe it affects us more

574
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:44,720
more deeply

575
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:47,919
absolutely right these are some of the

576
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:49,919
themes that you do cover in your book

577
00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:51,760
yeah and so again there's there's lots

578
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,080
of i go into the the legends i go into

579
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:56,240
uh the the some of the narratives i go

580
00:21:01,909 --> 00:20:59,440
into the ways in which fear is monetized

581
00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:01,919
um and then i sort of wrap up with sort

582
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:03,440
of what are the consequences right i

583
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:04,320
mean

584
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:06,320
i and others can point out the different

585
00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:08,720
ways in which fear is used but there are

586
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,440
very real consequences to this and

587
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:13,919
one of the first steps that i argue

588
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:16,720
is just to identify it just to recognize

589
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:19,280
how fear is marketed uh to people and

590
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:21,679
again i the the topic is america but

591
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,120
this actually applies

592
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:25,200
generally i mean much of this applies in

593
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,520
australia and belgium anywhere else one

594
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:29,600
of the themes here is that look we have

595
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:31,120
finite resources we have finite

596
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:33,200
attention spans our politicians have

597
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:35,039
finite attention spans

598
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:37,200
and there are so many

599
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:39,360
so many things that are vying for our

600
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:41,679
our attention in in some cases you know

601
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:43,520
pushing our fear buttons

602
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:45,200
and that's why it's important to

603
00:21:48,149 --> 00:21:46,880
determine which of these theories are

604
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:48,159
more credible which ones are more

605
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:50,640
serious than others our daily diet of

606
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:53,280
social media and news media may hand us

607
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:54,880
five or six things to be afraid of you

608
00:22:00,070 --> 00:21:57,200
know wildfires climate change uh

609
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:00,080
economic take your pick and you know

610
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:02,080
covet vaccinations right and so you have

611
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:04,080
fear of covet then you also have on the

612
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:06,480
other side people who who are promoting

613
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:08,559
fear of the vaccination so you you can't

614
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:10,159
win right

615
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:13,039
every which way you turn right so so

616
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:15,120
what i would argue is that the really

617
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:17,520
the best prism uh through which to view

618
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:19,520
this is you know critical thinking and

619
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:22,159
skepticism and recognizing that not

620
00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:24,320
everything that we are urged to fear uh

621
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,600
we should fear

622
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:27,200
well i fear not reading your book i want

623
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:28,880
to get my hands on a copy of your book

624
00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:31,280
as soon as i can ben what should i do

625
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:32,640
what should our listeners do to make

626
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:35,440
sure they secure a copy of america the

627
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:36,799
fearful

628
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:38,720
well thank you i i always encourage

629
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:41,280
people whenever possible to shop local

630
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:42,080
um

631
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,320
if people can patronize their local

632
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:46,320
bookstore not everybody can do that i

633
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:48,559
understand that other than that it's

634
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:49,760
available

635
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:51,440
in all the mainstream markets it is a

636
00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,360
mainstream publisher this is mcfarland

637
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,679
uh books who i've published with before

638
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,600
uh so yeah check it out check it out

639
00:23:01,590 --> 00:22:59,840
folks i will add a link to that

640
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:01,600
publisher in this week's show notes and

641
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:04,000
i'll add a link to your site too ben and

642
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:05,679
just for our listeners benefit where can

643
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:07,679
people go to find out more about you

644
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:10,080
more about me wow i i get tired of

645
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:11,520
talking about myself but i will

646
00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:13,039
persevere

647
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:14,240
um

648
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:16,559
yes you can find me on the facebooks you

649
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:20,320
can find me on twitter at bt radford and

650
00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:22,720
also on squaring the strange uh the

651
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,280
podcast and uh now and then i are i

652
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:27,840
write articles uh in skeptical inquire

653
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:29,200
magazine

654
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:30,799
excellent ben radford always good to

655
00:23:36,470 --> 00:23:33,760
catch up with you let's do it in person

656
00:23:39,890 --> 00:23:36,480
when next we possibly can absolutely

657
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:39,900
love to thank you

658
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:50,480
[Music]

659
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:53,200
hi i'm ben radford co-host of squaring

660
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:54,799
strange podcast

661
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:57,360
in these trying times as we help each

662
00:24:01,430 --> 00:23:59,440
other out to hold on to hope we want you

663
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,440
to know that we're here for you hey hey

664
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:03,360
what are you going on about

665
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:04,799
who's interrupting my heartfelt

666
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:07,840
promotional copy it's me celestia ward

667
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:09,919
your co-host

668
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,880
really in these trying times that's the

669
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:14,400
best you can do

670
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:15,760
well i'm just doing what everyone else

671
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:17,679
is doing i thought

672
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:18,720
that's

673
00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:20,320
not what we do

674
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:22,400
oh for crying out loud who else is here

675
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:26,480
pasqual romero your other co-host hey

676
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:29,200
we don't do what everybody else does ben

677
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:30,799
that's kind of our thing at squaring the

678
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:33,360
strange yeah we try to approach things a

679
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:35,120
little differently than your standard

680
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:37,360
skeptical talky talk show

681
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:39,760
we do our own thing bringing science

682
00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:42,080
critical thinking and skepticism to bear

683
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:43,760
on issues of the day

684
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:45,279
we've got a professional skeptical

685
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:46,480
author ben

686
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:48,159
who has decades of experience

687
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:50,880
researching topics for a dozen books and

688
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:53,520
thousands of articles and a cartoonist

689
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:55,360
skeptic celestia who knows her stuff

690
00:24:59,110 --> 00:24:57,039
when it comes to facial weirdness and

691
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:59,120
the psychology of perception and a

692
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:01,600
badass heavy metal rock star and tech

693
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,760
engineer pasquale who brings knowledge

694
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:05,760
of all things audio plus a bunch of neck

695
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:06,880
tattoos

696
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:08,720
squaring the strange explores topics

697
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:10,880
both mysterious and mundane through a

698
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:13,840
critical lens monsters panics media

699
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:15,600
literacy

700
00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:18,000
okay forget the whole trying times promo

701
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:20,559
idea but we have chupacabras and clown

702
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:21,840
panics right

703
00:25:28,810 --> 00:25:32,149
[Music]

704
00:25:35,610 --> 00:25:33,510
and now

705
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:35,620
a reading from the book of tim

706
00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:38,320
[Music]

707
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:41,150
with tim mendez

708
00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:47,440
[Music]

709
00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:50,080
hi my name is tim menden i'm executive

710
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:52,320
officer of australian skeptics inc and

711
00:25:55,269 --> 00:25:54,000
i'm the editor of our magazine the

712
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:55,279
skeptic

713
00:26:01,029 --> 00:25:58,000
today i will be continuing an article on

714
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:01,039
perpetual motion that we began last week

715
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:02,640
now this is from the skeptic magazine

716
00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:06,720
september 2016 which is volume 36 number

717
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:07,760
three

718
00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:09,440
and you can download this issue of the

719
00:26:13,390 --> 00:26:11,279
magazine as you can most other issues

720
00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:13,400
from our website

721
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:15,039
skeptics.com.au

722
00:26:18,070 --> 00:26:16,960
and it's free except for the four most

723
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:18,080
recent ones which you will have to

724
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:20,559
subscribe to

725
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:22,000
now we're looking at perpetual motion

726
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:24,000
the first half last week looked at a lot

727
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:25,679
of the physics it was pretty heavy

728
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:27,440
behind perpetual motion the sort of

729
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:29,840
things it is and how it works what can't

730
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,880
work

731
00:26:33,909 --> 00:26:32,480
and now we're looking at the more

732
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:33,919
practical side if you like the history

733
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:35,520
of perpetual motion

734
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,960
and this is an article written by

735
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:38,640
anthony garrett a former member of

736
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:41,200
australian skeptics inc sydney committee

737
00:26:47,029 --> 00:26:42,880
originally written in

738
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:47,039
1987 and was reprinted in 2016.

739
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:48,960
it's called the neverending story so

740
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:50,240
here's part two

741
00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:53,440
the history of perpetual notion

742
00:26:56,710 --> 00:26:55,279
and as anthony says with the scientific

743
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,720
theory behind us

744
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:58,640
which you can hear last week we can now

745
00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:00,320
look at the entertaining history of the

746
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:02,960
perpetual motion machine

747
00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:04,640
and much of the following that anthony

748
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:06,720
uses is adapted from a book by arthur

749
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:09,440
orwood hume called perpetual motion the

750
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,520
history of an obsession

751
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:13,440
nowadays with the laws of thermodynamics

752
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,279
taken largely for granted it is

753
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,360
difficult to imagine a time when energy

754
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,679
conservation was not established and the

755
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,360
equivalence of the various forms of

756
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:23,600
energy particularly heat was fiercely

757
00:27:26,789 --> 00:27:25,039
debated

758
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:26,799
yet such was the situation up to the

759
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:28,640
middle of the last century and we're

760
00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:31,200
talking 1800s here and we owe it to the

761
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:33,279
early proponents of perpetual nation to

762
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:36,000
judge them by their own time

763
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:37,760
a sanskrit manuscript from the first

764
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:40,080
half of the fifth century refers to a

765
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:41,039
wheel

766
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:43,919
free to rotate about a horizontal axis

767
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:45,919
with sealed holes half filled with

768
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:48,640
mercury drilled radially in from its

769
00:27:51,669 --> 00:27:50,159
circumference

770
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:51,679
once started the hole was supposed to

771
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:53,440
maintain its rotation

772
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:55,279
presumably its inventor believed the

773
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:57,840
extra moment arising when the mercury on

774
00:28:00,470 --> 00:27:59,679
the descending side of the wheel moved

775
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:00,480
into

776
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:03,039
centripetal force from the inner end of

777
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:06,320
its container to the circumferential end

778
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:08,320
provides sufficient impetus to keep the

779
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:09,440
thing going

780
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:11,200
this is the earliest known coherent

781
00:28:15,269 --> 00:28:13,600
suggestion for perpetual motion

782
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:15,279
in reality it is not a machine of the

783
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,320
first kind and fails because of friction

784
00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:20,000
to be of the second kind

785
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:21,679
nevertheless this machine is an

786
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:24,240
unwitting prototype of many proposed in

787
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:26,080
18th century europe

788
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:27,840
in which weights attached to the

789
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:29,600
circumference of the wheel are arranged

790
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,080
to dispose themselves farther from the

791
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:34,559
axis on the descending side of the wheel

792
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:36,159
than the ascending

793
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:37,760
you picture this like a wheel in which

794
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:38,880
things on

795
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,559
on the downward slide

796
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:42,720
stick out further than on the upward

797
00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:44,880
turn where they sort of sit alongside

798
00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:46,399
the wheel

799
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:48,720
some of these were marvelously intricate

800
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,880
and the marquee of worcester who is

801
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:52,559
believed to have constructed the first

802
00:28:59,669 --> 00:28:55,440
practical steam engine proposed several

803
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,679
and claimed success for one in 1655

804
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:01,360
these were predated by the italian

805
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:04,720
philosopher zamara who in 1518 proposed

806
00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:06,960
a mechanical link between a windmill and

807
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:10,000
a set of bellows aimed at the windmill

808
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:11,760
perpetual motion machines

809
00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:13,600
invariably involve a conversion of

810
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:16,240
energy from one mode to another in an

811
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,840
attempt to beat one of the laws of

812
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:19,360
thermodynamics

813
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:21,919
and it is usual to find that one mode is

814
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:23,919
traditional such as the wind operating

815
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:25,039
the windmill

816
00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:27,039
and is then augmented by a proposed

817
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:28,880
backlink of the modes completing a

818
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:31,039
closed loop of energy

819
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:33,520
an electric motor powered by a generator

820
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:36,000
is also linked back mechanically to it

821
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:38,080
is another example

822
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:39,600
a measure of the respectability of

823
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,000
perpetual motion at this time was that

824
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:44,320
as great a genius as leonardo da vinci

825
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:46,559
who was zamara's contemporary produced

826
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:49,360
sketches for six designs of machines

827
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:50,960
by far the most common proposals

828
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,760
concerned self-propelling water wheels

829
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:55,600
the water mill was in widespread use

830
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:57,200
throughout europe and what was more

831
00:30:01,669 --> 00:29:59,600
natural than to harness its power to

832
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:01,679
raise the water once more

833
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,080
ash's visual pun exemplifies this

834
00:30:07,669 --> 00:30:06,240
concept water going down and then up

835
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:07,679
again and down and up again in a

836
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:09,760
never-ending loop

837
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:12,640
the appropriately named robert flood

838
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:15,360
1574-1637

839
00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:18,159
and george bochler of nuremberg were two

840
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:21,039
leading visionaries of this kind

841
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:23,679
it mattered little that bishop wilkins

842
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:25,600
tested a similar scheme of his own in

843
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:28,720
1648 and became skeptical as a result of

844
00:30:31,909 --> 00:30:30,000
its failure

845
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:31,919
perpetual motion was in the air of the

846
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:32,960
times

847
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:35,760
from the 1720s onwards proposals were

848
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:36,880
rife

849
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:39,039
it is assuredly no coincidence that the

850
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:41,360
idea was only laid to rest once the

851
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:44,000
industrial revolution was consolidated

852
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,480
when testing and failure became a matter

853
00:30:50,549 --> 00:30:48,640
of routine

854
00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:50,559
the harnessing of electromagnetism led

855
00:30:55,430 --> 00:30:52,559
to a new series of proposals in the last

856
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:55,440
century all essentially coupling motions

857
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,960
to generators

858
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:58,799
in fact the earliest coherent magnetic

859
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:01,760
proposal goes as far back as 1570 when

860
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:04,640
the jesuit priest tysonieris

861
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:06,559
proposed that an iron ball would roll

862
00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:09,200
down a ramp under gravity and be drawn

863
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:10,799
back to its starting point along a

864
00:31:15,269 --> 00:31:13,200
second ramp by a magnet

865
00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:15,279
in the 18th century a london clockmaker

866
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:17,519
james cox constructed the first clock to

867
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,840
be powered by changes in atmosphere

868
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:21,120
pressure

869
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:23,440
such clocks are only as perpetual as the

870
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:24,320
weather

871
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:26,159
ultimately powered by the heat of the

872
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:27,120
sun

873
00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:29,279
be that as it may cox's device was

874
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:31,440
ingenious in design and attracted

875
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,200
favorable comment

876
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:35,360
a natural corollary to the failure of

877
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:37,279
perpetual motion machines before the

878
00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:39,600
idea of energy conservation came to

879
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:41,840
permeate the general consciousness was

880
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:44,960
exploitation and fraud

881
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,720
ep willis of connecticut charged

882
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:49,120
admission to view an asymmetrical wheel

883
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:51,840
machine which he set up in new haven and

884
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:53,519
subsequently in new york

885
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,440
it was maintained in a glass case it was

886
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:57,360
actually powered by compressed air

887
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:59,679
passed up a strut and over one of the

888
00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:00,960
geared wheels

889
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:02,799
willis was an exploiter rather than a

890
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:04,960
fraudster who challenged visitors to

891
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,360
state how the machine could run other

892
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:09,679
than by perpetual motion

893
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:11,679
no such constraints attached to charles

894
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:14,640
red heifer who set up a machine in 1812

895
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:17,919
in philadelphia which ran unceasingly

896
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:20,080
needless to say viewing was not free of

897
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:21,039
charge

898
00:32:25,029 --> 00:32:23,120
a team of experts sent to examine it in

899
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:25,039
connection with redhoff's application

900
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:27,440
for funding detected that the where on

901
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:29,200
two connected gears was on the wrong

902
00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:30,080
side

903
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:31,760
and were satisfied that fraud was

904
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:33,039
involved

905
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:35,440
they didn't detect its nature but

906
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,440
instead reproduced the fraud by building

907
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:39,440
a similar machine with concealed

908
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:42,320
clockwork and a winder disguised as an

909
00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:44,159
ornamental knob

910
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:46,159
red heifer privately offered its owner

911
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:48,159
sellers a large sum not to reveal his

912
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:49,679
secret

913
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:52,640
instead sellers denounced red heifer

914
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:54,559
worst was to come in new york

915
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:56,320
where red heifer constructed a further

916
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:57,360
machine

917
00:33:01,590 --> 00:32:59,360
the submarine pioneer robert fulton

918
00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:01,600
recognized its uneven speed during one

919
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:04,080
cycle as characteristic of a crank

920
00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:05,360
appropriately

921
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:08,000
denounced it on the spot and dismantled

922
00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:10,000
a suspicious looking support strut to

923
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:13,279
reveal a catgut belted drive run by a

924
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:16,480
man turning a wheel of eccentric shape

925
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:17,840
even more appropriately that's the wheel

926
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:20,000
was eccentric shape not the man running

927
00:33:23,669 --> 00:33:21,919
in a nearby room

928
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:23,679
the crowd which had paid five dollars a

929
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:25,760
man a large sum in those days

930
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:27,679
ladies were free for some reason

931
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:29,840
demolished the remainder and red heifer

932
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:30,799
fled

933
00:33:35,830 --> 00:33:32,960
but the finest fraud was perpetrated by

934
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:35,840
john keeley again of philadelphia

935
00:33:41,110 --> 00:33:38,720
in 1875 he unveiled a complicated

936
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:41,120
variant on the steam engine in which he

937
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:43,039
would blow into a nozzle for half a

938
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:45,120
minute and then pour five gallons of

939
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:46,399
water into it

940
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:48,559
after a whiz-bang show of manipulating

941
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:50,559
various valves and taps he would then

942
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:52,480
announce the apparatus was charged with

943
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:55,120
a mysterious vapor at a pressure of 10

944
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:57,440
000 pounds per square inch

945
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:59,039
keeley claimed the power source was the

946
00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:00,960
disintegration of water

947
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:03,120
latter-day enthusiasts preferred like

948
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:06,320
keeley to tap new forms of energy rather

949
00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:08,720
than deny its conservation

950
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:11,119
this is theoretically possible but it is

951
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:13,919
extremely unlikely that new exploitable

952
00:34:17,589 --> 00:34:15,599
forms will be found

953
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:17,599
and even so it would still not provide

954
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:19,679
something for nothing

955
00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:21,919
the main reason for keeley's success he

956
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:24,159
raised over a million dollars

957
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:26,399
to set up the keeley motor company with

958
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:27,760
showmanship

959
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:30,000
keeley was an imposing figure with an

960
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:32,720
air of honesty about him he was fond of

961
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:35,040
baffling the uninitiated with phrases

962
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:38,159
such as hydropneumatic pulsating vacuum

963
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:39,119
engine

964
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,440
sympathetic equilibrium

965
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:43,520
etheric disintegration

966
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:46,800
and quadruple negative harmonics

967
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:48,720
such pseudo-scientific terms are often

968
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:51,280
used by today's charlatans

969
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:53,200
plus south shores

970
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:55,119
the more things change the more they

971
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:56,879
stay the same

972
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:58,800
with the initiated he was far more

973
00:35:02,710 --> 00:35:00,960
guarded and pains were taken to ensure

974
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:02,720
no man of science was permitted to

975
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,280
examine the machine too closely

976
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:07,760
in the 1880s tequila motor company

977
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:09,760
discouraged by his failure to produce a

978
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,960
commercial motor cut off his funding

979
00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:14,880
he found an alternative source in a

980
00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:17,599
wealthy widow mrs moore who had faith in

981
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,880
his ideas

982
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:20,880
and promptly unveiled a new one

983
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:23,359
vibrating energy in the ether which

984
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:26,079
underlay the disintegration of water

985
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:27,520
the motor company sued him for a

986
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:29,760
reimbursement but he claimed his latest

987
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:31,760
idea was unrelated to those he had

988
00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:34,720
uncovered under his iges and refused to

989
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:36,079
pay

990
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,320
after a spell in prison he succeeded in

991
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:40,800
satisfying the court of this

992
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:42,720
keeley was forced to tread warily when

993
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,240
his benefactors attempted to have

994
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:46,720
leading scientific figures validate his

995
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:47,839
device

996
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:48,800
tesla

997
00:35:54,790 --> 00:35:52,160
and madison declined but a visit in 1895

998
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:54,800
led the engineers involved to suspect

999
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,720
compressed air sources

1000
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:58,720
they were right after keeley's death

1001
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:00,960
three years later the son of one of his

1002
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:02,960
backers promptly rented the house and

1003
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:05,359
found it was comprehensively wired to a

1004
00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:07,920
three-ton air tank in the basement

1005
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:09,760
the first patent on a perpetual motion

1006
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:12,160
machine proposal was granted in britain

1007
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:14,000
in 1635

1008
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:15,920
only 12 years after painting was

1009
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:17,359
introduced

1010
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,480
by 1775 though the parisian academy of

1011
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:22,560
science was sufficiently disillusioned

1012
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:25,359
to refuse to accept schemes

1013
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:26,560
since this was long before the

1014
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:28,800
establishment of energy conservation the

1015
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:30,400
gentleman of paris can only have been

1016
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:32,880
motivated by the repeated failure of all

1017
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:35,280
such devices in practice

1018
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:37,920
the u.s patent office decreed nearly 100

1019
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:40,000
years later that a working model be

1020
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:42,000
submitted within one year of the initial

1021
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,520
application

1022
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:45,599
but enthusiasts still gummed up the

1023
00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:48,320
works with unimplemented proposals and

1024
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:50,560
finally in 1911 a working model was

1025
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:52,640
demanded from the start

1026
00:36:58,310 --> 00:36:54,720
this rule was challenged in the courts

1027
00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:58,320
and in 1979 inventor howard johnston

1028
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:02,160
finally won u.s patent number 4151431

1029
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:03,839
on his proposal

1030
00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:06,000
nevertheless it is hardly accurate to

1031
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:07,920
suggest that the world waits with baited

1032
00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:11,040
breath for a working model

1033
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:12,400
the story of perpetual motion

1034
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:15,520
exemplifies the entire human endeavor an

1035
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:17,599
upward crawl to enlightenment with

1036
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:20,240
theory and practice advancing side by

1037
00:37:25,829 --> 00:37:23,280
side momentous discoveries by pioneers

1038
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:25,839
which ultimately become the bedrock upon

1039
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:28,320
which the next advances are built and

1040
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:30,240
ever the charlatans seeking to exploit

1041
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:32,960
ignorance for their own gain

1042
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:35,040
anthony says i have chosen to present

1043
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:37,200
the whole business as a case history

1044
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,800
rather than a warning

1045
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:41,040
but if any lesson is to be drawn it is

1046
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:42,480
that the best insurance against

1047
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:44,720
charlatanism is a scientifically

1048
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:46,880
educated public

1049
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:49,359
in the mid-1980s a los angeles jury

1050
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:51,839
acquitted a perpetual motion inventor of

1051
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:54,880
fraudulently raising up to 685 thousand

1052
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:57,839
dollars u.s from the gullible because

1053
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,000
the attorney later found they believed

1054
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:02,400
perpetual motion and energy creation

1055
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,480
were possible

1056
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:06,560
the sooner that could no longer happen

1057
00:38:09,510 --> 00:38:07,170
the better

1058
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:09,520
[Music]

1059
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:11,920
and that's part two of this article on

1060
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,359
perpetual motion

1061
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,280
reprinted from the skeptic magazine

1062
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:17,599
september 2016

1063
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:19,520
volume 36 number three and you can

1064
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:21,359
download that from our website and it's

1065
00:38:25,510 --> 00:38:23,200
good to point out at this stage that

1066
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:25,520
this article came out in 1987 and

1067
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:27,839
reprinted in 2016

1068
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:29,200
and we have a challenge going for a

1069
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:30,720
hundred thousand dollars for anyone who

1070
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:32,160
can prove a paranormal or

1071
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:34,000
pseudoscientific skill

1072
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:36,000
and we still get claims for perpetual

1073
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:37,440
motion machines

1074
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:40,240
or above unity machines or free energy

1075
00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:42,160
machines and most of them still run on

1076
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:44,320
the same principles that anthony

1077
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:48,240
described created in the 1500s 1600s

1078
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:49,839
and yet people still believe them and

1079
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:51,520
they still believe they can avoid the

1080
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:53,599
laws of thermodynamics

1081
00:38:57,670 --> 00:38:56,000
and the conservation of energy

1082
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:57,680
and it's sometimes quite sad to see

1083
00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:59,440
people investing their money

1084
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:00,960
lots of money

1085
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:02,480
trying to create these machines

1086
00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:05,119
sincerely most of them who really

1087
00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:07,040
believe they can do it

1088
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:08,800
one after the other after the other and

1089
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:10,560
we have to point out to them

1090
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:12,800
we'd love to see it in practice

1091
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:14,320
but it's highly unlikely that it will

1092
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:17,359
work as you've described it

1093
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:18,320
so you can read that issue of the

1094
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,920
magazine as i say you can download it

1095
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:21,119
for free from our website

1096
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:23,040
skeptics.com.edu

1097
00:39:26,829 --> 00:39:24,720
along with virtually every other issue

1098
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:26,839
of the magazine dating back to

1099
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:28,880
1981 so we have a long history of

1100
00:39:35,530 --> 00:39:31,040
skeptic magazines here

1101
00:39:35,540 --> 00:39:44,310
[Music]

1102
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:46,310
mostly ghostly

1103
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:48,480
there's something lurking in the shadows

1104
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:51,839
hey are you a ghost a soul departed or

1105
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:54,480
maybe you're an angel looking for a host

1106
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:55,599
this time

1107
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:58,640
there was an answer when windows started

1108
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:01,440
to rattle the table rose then crashed to

1109
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:02,640
the floor

1110
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:04,720
and we were set for battle

1111
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:07,040
the cameras were as the ghost appeared

1112
00:40:13,109 --> 00:40:10,560
in the cold air there with bony fingers

1113
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:13,119
bold knuckles craggy face and

1114
00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:16,079
straggly hair eyes set back deep in

1115
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:20,000
their sockets staring stark raving mad

1116
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:22,960
would this be a clash of violent wills

1117
00:40:27,829 --> 00:40:25,440
could this be really bad

1118
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:27,839
never had i seen such a visual trick as

1119
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:30,079
this site i saw before me if it was a

1120
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:32,480
trick with smoke and mirrors but nothing

1121
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:35,040
did assure me just a realistic sight of

1122
00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:37,359
an unrealistic thing a ghost from the

1123
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:40,480
dead and i tried to think what i'd eaten

1124
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:43,040
that put chemicals in my head

1125
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:45,839
it spoke in a feeble scratchy voice and

1126
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:48,480
i hardly heard a word my heart pounding

1127
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:50,880
beyond my choice was all i really heard

1128
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:53,440
and the table started trembling and it

1129
00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:55,839
danced across the floor as the ghost

1130
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:57,520
looked straight at me

1131
00:41:03,670 --> 00:40:59,920
so he could see what i was for

1132
00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:03,680
find my corpse find my dead body his

1133
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:06,560
word scratch the air and i looked into

1134
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:09,200
his eyes where i got trapped inside his

1135
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:10,319
stair

1136
00:41:15,750 --> 00:41:12,720
i'm asking for help from you an

1137
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:15,760
unbeliever he wheezed you must help me

1138
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:17,440
find my body

1139
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:20,240
and i felt my body squeezed

1140
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:22,560
could this really be a disconnected

1141
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:25,359
spirit from beyond the reel i tried to

1142
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:27,680
convince myself that i couldn't see or

1143
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:30,400
hear or feel but it was as though i

1144
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:34,160
could see into his brain and he mine and

1145
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:37,520
the cold concept sent cold shivers

1146
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,520
up and down my spine

1147
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:41,760
his look bored its way to the back of my

1148
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:44,720
skull through my eyes and i saw his

1149
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:47,680
naked soul stripped of life of truth and

1150
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:49,040
of lies

1151
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:50,960
then his tenuous grip on my world

1152
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:54,000
started to slowly loosen hold and the

1153
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:56,079
room was sucked of light

1154
00:42:00,270 --> 00:41:58,560
and without the light was cold

1155
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:00,280
this glorious apparition was

1156
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:03,599
disintegrating fading with his hope

1157
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:05,839
going back to the world between worlds

1158
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:08,319
sliding down the slope disappearing as

1159
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:10,240
he had appeared

1160
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:13,119
and vanishing from my mind

1161
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:15,200
until a strange

1162
00:42:27,730 --> 00:42:16,880
uneasy feeling

1163
00:42:27,740 --> 00:42:37,589
[Music]

1164
00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:39,270
now it's time once again to look into

1165
00:42:44,790 --> 00:42:43,040
those digital delights at trove at

1166
00:42:46,790 --> 00:42:44,800
dot gov dot trove.nla.gov u

1167
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:46,800
your online resource from the australian

1168
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:48,240
government in the national library of

1169
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:50,000
australia full

1170
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:52,319
of digitized newspapers articles

1171
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:54,160
gazettes journals

1172
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,400
reports periodicals

1173
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:58,640
probably old menus from somewhere or

1174
00:43:02,150 --> 00:42:59,680
other

1175
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:02,160
dating back decades decades and even

1176
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:04,240
centuries and we've had a lot of fun

1177
00:43:07,109 --> 00:43:06,000
looking up all sorts of paranormal

1178
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:07,119
goodies

1179
00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:09,440
as reported in the pages of newspapers

1180
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:12,319
here and overseas in the past couple of

1181
00:43:15,270 --> 00:43:13,359
years

1182
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:15,280
and as i like to say you'll never know

1183
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,640
what you'll find

1184
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,480
and quite often when i'm researching one

1185
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:20,720
topic i come across interesting things

1186
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:22,960
to do with another topic

1187
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:25,040
and i've discovered something that

1188
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:27,520
happened in the mid-1970s i was not

1189
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:28,960
aware about

1190
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:31,200
and this is to do with a prediction of a

1191
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:33,490
disaster

1192
00:43:37,829 --> 00:43:36,319
[Music]

1193
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:37,839
and so we turned to the pages of the

1194
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:39,440
canberra times

1195
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:41,200
and i think most of what i'm going to

1196
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:42,720
talk about today comes from the camera

1197
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:46,000
times this is dated the 1st of january

1198
00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:48,560
1976.

1199
00:43:52,470 --> 00:43:51,280
where was i on the 1st of january 1976

1200
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:52,480
probably

1201
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:54,640
in a caravan

1202
00:44:01,829 --> 00:43:58,960
because that's what my family did

1203
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:01,839
in the uh in the mid 70s

1204
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:04,160
anyway the story says prediction of

1205
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:05,200
quake

1206
00:44:08,150 --> 00:44:06,319
causes

1207
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:08,160
rumblings

1208
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:11,119
adelaide wednesday a prediction that

1209
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:13,119
adelaide would be struck by an

1210
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:16,480
earthquake and tidal wave on january 19

1211
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:19,520
is causing rumblings in the city

1212
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:22,640
mr john nash of maryland's who made the

1213
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:25,359
prediction some weeks ago has received

1214
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:28,319
telephone calls threatening his life

1215
00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:29,920
if anything happens

1216
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:32,480
i don't care what people think of me he

1217
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:33,359
said

1218
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:36,400
a former queenslander mr nash is leaving

1219
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:38,240
adelaide in two days with his wife and

1220
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:40,880
two children and is heading for western

1221
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:43,280
australia referring to his prediction he

1222
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:44,240
said

1223
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:46,400
i was gardening one day when a flash

1224
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:48,880
came to me warning of an earthquake and

1225
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:53,280
tidal wave clergymen have had calls from

1226
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:56,400
apprehensive parishioners father mercier

1227
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:00,160
of brooklyn park preached a sermon to

1228
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,400
allay people's fears

1229
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:04,400
central methodist mission superintendent

1230
00:45:10,150 --> 00:45:07,200
the reverend keith seaman said the

1231
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:10,160
forecast was causing unnecessary

1232
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:11,760
anxiety

1233
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:14,160
one enterprising used car firm has

1234
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:16,960
advertised quote earthquake clearance

1235
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:19,599
sale prices are crumbling buy your

1236
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:22,160
escape machine early

1237
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:24,240
and again we turn to the canberra times

1238
00:45:28,550 --> 00:45:26,720
dated the 12th of january so

1239
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:28,560
almost two weeks later

1240
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:30,480
1976

1241
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:34,240
adelaide worry on prediction of quake

1242
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,720
adelaide sunday a prediction that

1243
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:38,640
adelaide would be devastated by an

1244
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:41,680
earthquake and tidal wave on january 19

1245
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:44,079
has stirred up a storm of controversy

1246
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:45,839
the prediction was made by a former

1247
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:46,800
adelaide

1248
00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:49,920
quote clairvoyant and quote mr john nash

1249
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:52,000
now living in western australia since

1250
00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:54,640
his prediction at least three adelaide

1251
00:45:59,190 --> 00:45:57,119
families have sold their houses

1252
00:46:01,510 --> 00:45:59,200
and left the state

1253
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:01,520
prediction ridiculous

1254
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:05,040
a roman catholic priest of brooklyn park

1255
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:06,960
described the predictions as quote

1256
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:09,440
ridiculous end quote and said they were

1257
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:11,920
causing his parishioners anxiety the

1258
00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:15,680
adelaide seismologist dr d j sutton said

1259
00:46:21,270 --> 00:46:17,839
there was no scientific evidence to

1260
00:46:22,710 --> 00:46:21,280
support mr nash's prediction he'd missed

1261
00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:22,720
it as

1262
00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:23,920
poppycock

1263
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:25,760
to allow people's fears particularly

1264
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:28,480
those of migrants the premier of south

1265
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:30,640
australia mr dunstan said he would be

1266
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:33,359
spending january 19 on the beach at

1267
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:36,480
glenelg despite all the assurances given

1268
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:38,480
some people are arranging to be out of

1269
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:40,720
the city on that day

1270
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:42,160
now isn't it interesting that the

1271
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:44,240
reports so far

1272
00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:47,520
defer or refer to religious people

1273
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:50,240
to uh for comment or to allay people's

1274
00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:52,240
fears and only

1275
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:54,880
so far one scientist

1276
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:57,599
and oddly enough the next entry we have

1277
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:59,200
is from the

1278
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:01,440
papua new guinea post courier

1279
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:05,200
dated the 14th of january 1976

1280
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:08,000
a king knut for a day

1281
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:10,720
adelaide australian associated press the

1282
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:12,960
south australian premier mr dunstan is

1283
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:16,000
planning to do a king canute on a day an

1284
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:18,800
astrologer here predicted this city of

1285
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:21,040
more than 800 000 people would be

1286
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:23,119
devastated by an earthquake and a huge

1287
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:26,880
tidal wave mr dunstan told newsmen today

1288
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:29,440
he would stand on the city's grinnell

1289
00:47:35,349 --> 00:47:32,400
beach on january 19 the day adelaide

1290
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:35,359
house painter and self-styled seer mr

1291
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:37,920
john nash forecast the disaster would

1292
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:38,880
occur

1293
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:41,359
mr nash's prediction received wide

1294
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:43,839
publicity here a lot of people have been

1295
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:46,319
frightened by this ridiculous prediction

1296
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:48,880
mr dunstan said the leader of the

1297
00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:51,040
state's liberal party opposition

1298
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:54,079
dr david tonkin later criticized mr

1299
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:56,480
dunstan's plan describing it as a

1300
00:48:02,230 --> 00:47:59,200
publicity stunt the whole thing has been

1301
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:02,240
blown up out of all proportion mr tonkin

1302
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:03,040
said

1303
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:04,880
now in the camera times on the 15th of

1304
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:07,440
january 1976 a very

1305
00:48:11,109 --> 00:48:09,839
uh lengthy article about this whole

1306
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:11,119
affair

1307
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:14,400
under the title wicked city awaits its

1308
00:48:18,390 --> 00:48:15,680
doom

1309
00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:18,400
so i'll read some of this it says from

1310
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:20,559
our south australian correspondent

1311
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:23,440
this may well be the last report i shall

1312
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:26,480
ever file from the athens of the south

1313
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:28,720
soothsayers have predicted that next

1314
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:32,319
monday january 19 this fair city of 800

1315
00:48:37,270 --> 00:48:34,800
000 souls will be destroyed by an

1316
00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:37,280
earthquake and accompanying tidal waves

1317
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:39,440
all south australia is talking about the

1318
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:40,800
doom to come

1319
00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:42,800
some people think it will be a judgment

1320
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:45,920
for decaying moral standards which they

1321
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:48,720
consider has turned our athens into

1322
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:51,280
something of a gamora these past 10

1323
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:54,240
years first of all the former premier mr

1324
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:57,119
hall abandoned six o'clock closing

1325
00:49:00,829 --> 00:48:59,119
now that incidentally means

1326
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:00,839
when the public bars

1327
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:03,920
were closed every evening

1328
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:06,960
his attorney general mr milhouse

1329
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:08,960
legalized abortion

1330
00:49:14,829 --> 00:49:12,000
then the wicked mr dunstan took over the

1331
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:14,839
government and gave us things like state

1332
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:17,920
lottery a public holiday on adelaide cup

1333
00:49:21,270 --> 00:49:18,720
day

1334
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:21,280
and nude bathing beach legalized

1335
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:23,680
homosexual practices amongst consenting

1336
00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:25,200
adults in private

1337
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:27,520
relaxed censorship laws and lots of

1338
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:30,480
other debauching new practices now the

1339
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:32,400
story goes on talking more or less about

1340
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:34,960
the premiere of the day mr dunstan but

1341
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:37,680
later on it says flashes

1342
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:39,599
many people have had the sort of flashes

1343
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:43,599
mr nash talks about says dr dylan i have

1344
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:46,079
had flashes myself i have had dreams of

1345
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:48,000
personal disaster which did not come

1346
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:50,880
true i have had premonitions of danger

1347
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:53,280
which did not happen i simply dismiss

1348
00:49:57,430 --> 00:49:55,599
such fleeting thoughts or flashes as

1349
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:57,440
meaningless well

1350
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:00,559
it may be all right for the likes of dr

1351
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:03,520
dellen with his clever ways to make fun

1352
00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:06,319
of us simple people but those of us who

1353
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:10,000
plan to spend next monday at mount lofty

1354
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:12,640
well may have the last laugh on him of

1355
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:15,119
course the thing that has really upset a

1356
00:50:21,349 --> 00:50:18,000
lot of mr nash's disciples is the

1357
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:21,359
behavior of the churches and of church

1358
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:22,240
men

1359
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:24,319
you would think they would be all in

1360
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:27,599
favor of a return to an apocalyptic era

1361
00:50:31,829 --> 00:50:30,400
of revelation and of evil people

1362
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:31,839
suffering some sort of divine

1363
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:34,640
retribution not a bit of it not in our

1364
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:37,200
athens anyway take the roman catholic

1365
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:39,440
parish priest at brooklyn park a

1366
00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:42,240
reverend father a moster as an example

1367
00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:45,200
he sides shamelessly with mr dunson and

1368
00:50:49,349 --> 00:50:47,520
the academics he says many of his

1369
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:49,359
parishioners are migrant people of

1370
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:51,839
limited education some are unfamiliar

1371
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:54,400
with english and some of his italian

1372
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:57,040
flock in particular are really worried

1373
00:51:01,990 --> 00:50:59,040
about what's likely to happen

1374
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:02,000
but all that father muster can do for

1375
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:04,000
them is to tell them

1376
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:07,040
what you have been told is lies nonsense

1377
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:09,440
the anglican and methodists are adopting

1378
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:11,280
the same sort of attitude

1379
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:13,760
and there's more to that page there but

1380
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:15,280
if you go to this week's show notes you

1381
00:51:18,549 --> 00:51:16,720
can find the

1382
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:18,559
the reference to this

1383
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:20,800
particular item

1384
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:23,040
and interestingly enough

1385
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,200
directly underneath on the page is

1386
00:51:29,670 --> 00:51:27,760
another story earthquakes not uncommon

1387
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:29,680
in australia

1388
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:32,319
and uh it talks about the fact that

1389
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:34,160
yes australia does have earthquakes

1390
00:51:39,190 --> 00:51:37,920
probably earthquakes every every day

1391
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:39,200
tiny ones

1392
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:42,079
and occasionally ones you can feel

1393
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:44,880
they're very rare but they do happen

1394
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:46,720
now we come to the camera times of

1395
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:50,079
saturday the 17th of january 1976.

1396
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:53,599
astrologer backs disaster

1397
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:55,440
sydney friday one of australia's

1398
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:58,000
best-known astrologers mr richard

1399
00:52:02,790 --> 00:51:59,280
sterling

1400
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:02,800
predicted today a quote disaster in

1401
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:04,559
quote for south australia in the coming

1402
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:07,680
week possibly on monday or tuesday as

1403
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:11,200
the adelaide doomsday exodus

1404
00:52:16,950 --> 00:52:13,920
continued his prediction supports that

1405
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:16,960
of house painter and self-styled seer mr

1406
00:52:21,190 --> 00:52:19,280
john nash who forecasts that adelaide

1407
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:21,200
would be devastated by an earthquake and

1408
00:52:25,670 --> 00:52:23,440
tidal wave on monday

1409
00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:25,680
mr nash has since moved to western

1410
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:28,079
australia leaving growing fears among

1411
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:30,000
sections of the city's migrant

1412
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:31,920
population hundreds of people are

1413
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:34,480
reported to have taken to the hills or

1414
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:37,520
left the area altogether in case

1415
00:52:42,870 --> 00:52:40,400
disaster strikes in sydney mr sterling

1416
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:42,880
said it was possible that some sort of

1417
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:45,440
natural disaster would occur in the

1418
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:49,280
south australian area between january 17

1419
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:50,880
and 24th

1420
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:54,000
the worst days were january 19 and 20.

1421
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:57,200
next monday and tuesday mr sterling

1422
00:53:02,069 --> 00:52:59,920
said he did not know if there would be

1423
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:02,079
an earthquake in adelaide on monday but

1424
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:04,720
described the similarity of his

1425
00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:08,079
prediction with that of mr nash's as

1426
00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:09,440
strange

1427
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:12,800
and a bit eerie he said he based his

1428
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:15,440
forecast on the study of planetary

1429
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:16,559
movements

1430
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:19,040
and the reported behavior of

1431
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:22,480
snails in adelaide they are said to be

1432
00:53:27,589 --> 00:53:24,720
leaving ground level and crawling up

1433
00:53:29,750 --> 00:53:27,599
into the roofs of houses mr sterling

1434
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:29,760
said he had not published his prediction

1435
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:31,839
until now because he did not want to

1436
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:34,640
alarm people the story goes on adelaide

1437
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:36,720
friday dozens of families packed their

1438
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:38,960
belongings today and headed for the

1439
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:41,359
hills behind the south australian

1440
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:44,000
capital hundreds of others have already

1441
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:46,720
fled some as far afield as sydney and

1442
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:48,880
melbourne the fleeing citizens are

1443
00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:51,520
mainly migrants from mediterranean

1444
00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:54,960
countries in an attempt to stop panic

1445
00:53:58,870 --> 00:53:56,800
the premiere of south australia mr

1446
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:58,880
dunstan has announced he will stand on

1447
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:01,680
gleneld beach on monday to demonstrate

1448
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:04,400
that he believes the prophecy is

1449
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:06,880
unfounded pleased by religious leaders

1450
00:54:12,069 --> 00:54:09,680
in numerous ethnic communities to remain

1451
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:12,079
calm have been ignored even special

1452
00:54:17,270 --> 00:54:15,359
blessings on the homes of greeks in and

1453
00:54:20,710 --> 00:54:17,280
around the city offered by greek

1454
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:20,720
orthodox priests have had little effect

1455
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:22,960
the operations center at adelaide police

1456
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:25,520
headquarters has been inundated with

1457
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:26,480
calls

1458
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:28,240
a lot of people are taking this

1459
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:30,960
seriously a senior police officer said

1460
00:54:34,549 --> 00:54:33,760
today frankly we do not believe it will

1461
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:34,559
happen

1462
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:37,760
and now we come to the first report

1463
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:39,520
after the

1464
00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:42,960
time of the earthquake or the day

1465
00:54:46,789 --> 00:54:44,960
predicted by the seer

1466
00:54:49,270 --> 00:54:46,799
and this comes to us from tuesday the

1467
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:49,280
20th of january 1976 in the canberra

1468
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:50,400
times

1469
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:51,520
seer

1470
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:53,040
still waiting

1471
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:55,760
melbourne monday the man who predicted

1472
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:58,079
the earthquake 40 year old house painter

1473
00:55:03,109 --> 00:55:00,480
mr john nash said tonight he still

1474
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:03,119
believed adelaide would be destroyed

1475
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:06,079
one saw the vision at noon but that does

1476
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:08,160
not mean that the earthquake was going

1477
00:55:13,829 --> 00:55:11,280
to happen at that time he said it was

1478
00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:13,839
possible the catastrophe would happen by

1479
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:15,839
midnight tonight or

1480
00:55:20,710 --> 00:55:18,720
possibly tomorrow mr nash said his wife

1481
00:55:23,349 --> 00:55:20,720
and two children have rented a home in a

1482
00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:23,359
melbourne suburb he is unemployed and

1483
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:26,559
said it's hard for a person like me to

1484
00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:30,240
get a job asked if he would eventually

1485
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:32,880
return to adelaide he said there won't

1486
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:35,920
be any adelaide to go back to attempts

1487
00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:37,440
might be made on his life or his

1488
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:39,520
families whether the disaster struck

1489
00:55:44,870 --> 00:55:42,079
adelaide or not he said the people who

1490
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:44,880
have sold everything have threatened me

1491
00:55:50,789 --> 00:55:48,480
if the disaster does not occur he said

1492
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:50,799
if it does happen people will say i

1493
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:51,920
caused it

1494
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:53,599
and finally we come to the canberra

1495
00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:57,200
times dated the 20th of january tuesday

1496
00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:59,839
the 20th of january 1976.

1497
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:01,520
the disaster day

1498
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:04,559
that did not happen adelaide monday the

1499
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:07,359
adelaide earthquake and tidal wave scare

1500
00:56:11,910 --> 00:56:09,599
culminated today in the greatest

1501
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:11,920
non-event of the new year

1502
00:56:15,710 --> 00:56:14,720
the weather remained fine and mild the

1503
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:15,720
local

1504
00:56:21,510 --> 00:56:18,880
seismologists could not detect even the

1505
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:21,520
mildest earth tremor anywhere

1506
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:23,839
and not even a pigeon dropping seemed to

1507
00:56:29,150 --> 00:56:27,119
have been dislodged from city buildings

1508
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:29,160
it was the hardly surprising

1509
00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:31,200
anti-climatics to several weeks of

1510
00:56:36,390 --> 00:56:33,599
rumors based on the predictions of a

1511
00:56:38,150 --> 00:56:36,400
obscure house painter named john nash

1512
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:38,160
who played the part of an amateur

1513
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:40,640
clairvoyant in his spare time

1514
00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:42,799
he said last november that adelaide

1515
00:56:49,430 --> 00:56:45,920
would be destroyed and inundated by the

1516
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:49,440
sea late in the morning of january 19.

1517
00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:51,760
most adelaide citizens went about their

1518
00:56:56,950 --> 00:56:54,480
business as usual today several thousand

1519
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:56,960
entered into the fun of the thing and

1520
00:57:01,750 --> 00:56:59,280
held earthquake parties on sunday night

1521
00:57:05,030 --> 00:57:01,760
or went to a gay celebration at the

1522
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:05,040
metropolitan beach of glenelg early

1523
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:06,079
today

1524
00:57:10,230 --> 00:57:08,240
staggered leaders

1525
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:10,240
but what staggered most community

1526
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:13,040
leaders was the credulity of large

1527
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:14,640
numbers of citizens

1528
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:16,640
more than 100 people from adelaide for

1529
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:18,400
example checked in at the barmera

1530
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:21,359
caravan park on the river murray on

1531
00:57:27,670 --> 00:57:24,000
sunday night the park manager said they

1532
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:27,680
seemed mostly of mediterranean origin

1533
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:29,760
most had piles of personal possessions

1534
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:32,960
with them and some brought cats dogs and

1535
00:57:38,349 --> 00:57:35,599
birds in cages many adelaide shops and

1536
00:57:41,510 --> 00:57:38,359
factories also reported even higher

1537
00:57:45,109 --> 00:57:41,520
absenteeism than usual on a monday some

1538
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:45,119
of the absentees may merely have been

1539
00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:48,000
taking advantage of a new excuse for

1540
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:49,280
malingering

1541
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:52,480
but some were undoubtedly

1542
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:54,400
genuine in their fear

1543
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:56,960
one man apologized to his boss the

1544
00:58:01,430 --> 00:57:59,119
manager of a swimming pool construction

1545
00:58:04,150 --> 00:58:01,440
firm for being away from work but

1546
00:58:06,150 --> 00:58:04,160
explained that his wife was terrified

1547
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,160
and would not allow him to leave her

1548
00:58:11,109 --> 00:58:08,880
today by contrast the earthquake rumors

1549
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,119
produced plenty of good fun

1550
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:13,920
six employees of the mlc insurance

1551
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:15,599
company arrived at work this morning

1552
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:18,720
wearing flippers and goggles and

1553
00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:20,319
carrying snorkels

1554
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:22,960
massage parlors advertised tidal wave

1555
00:58:28,789 --> 00:58:25,839
specials and urged prospective clients

1556
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:28,799
to come in and enjoy yourself before

1557
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:31,280
it's too late and later on in the story

1558
00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:33,760
it says not fault of media flinders

1559
00:58:39,349 --> 00:58:35,920
university senior lecturer in psychology

1560
00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:39,359
dr david gibbs summed it all up in these

1561
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:40,640
words

1562
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:42,880
any panic over the earthquake prediction

1563
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:44,720
reflected people's anxiety about

1564
00:58:49,349 --> 00:58:46,960
uncertainty of life and their ability to

1565
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:49,359
cope many people still do not understand

1566
00:58:54,150 --> 00:58:51,520
how natural disasters happen

1567
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:54,160
so if someone prophesies a disaster in

1568
00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:56,000
specific terms

1569
00:59:01,500 --> 00:58:58,400
giving times and dates and the media

1570
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:01,510
pick it up they will react accordingly

1571
00:59:09,510 --> 00:59:07,040
[Music]

1572
00:59:12,789 --> 00:59:09,520
so there you are the tale of a failed

1573
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:12,799
prophecy for adelaide in 1976

1574
00:59:17,109 --> 00:59:15,280
and what um i find particularly

1575
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:17,119
interesting is all the attention the

1576
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:18,720
story got

1577
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:20,480
and apparently thousands of people were

1578
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:23,280
very worried just because somebody

1579
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:24,480
had a dream

1580
00:59:29,030 --> 00:59:27,440
or a flash or a feeling or made it up

1581
00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:29,040
that the city would be suffering an

1582
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:30,960
earthquake and tidal wave

1583
00:59:34,870 --> 00:59:32,960
i don't know what ever happened to john

1584
00:59:36,710 --> 00:59:34,880
nash after that

1585
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:36,720
but just harking back to the earlier

1586
00:59:43,990 --> 00:59:39,760
report i read dated the 17th of january

1587
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:44,000
1976 where the astrologer richard

1588
00:59:47,510 --> 00:59:45,760
sterling

1589
00:59:49,750 --> 00:59:47,520
backed the

1590
00:59:50,870 --> 00:59:49,760
prediction of disaster richard sterling

1591
00:59:53,349 --> 00:59:50,880
was a

1592
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:53,359
prominent media astrologer of the day i

1593
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:55,839
remember he had a regular column

1594
00:59:59,349 --> 00:59:57,599
in some publications including the

1595
01:00:02,789 --> 00:59:59,359
australian women's weekly

1596
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:02,799
and maybe his predictions might be

1597
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:06,480
the subject of a future trove segment i

1598
01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:08,000
have no recollection of this story

1599
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:09,920
whatsoever i was a bit young at the time

1600
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:12,079
so something like this probably wouldn't

1601
01:00:17,430 --> 01:00:13,440
have

1602
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,440
i was too busy watching the goodies and

1603
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:19,440
doctor who i think

1604
01:00:23,030 --> 01:00:21,280
and don't forget that you too can find

1605
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:23,040
out all sorts of interesting things

1606
01:00:28,030 --> 01:00:25,839
about disasters that did not happen

1607
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:28,040
in the pages of trove at

1608
01:00:34,820 --> 01:00:30,720
trove.nla.gov dot eu because you'll

1609
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:34,830
never know what you might find

1610
01:00:56,950 --> 01:00:55,030
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1611
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:56,960
zone this week and thank you ben radford

1612
01:01:02,150 --> 01:00:59,520
always good to catch up with you ben

1613
01:01:04,430 --> 01:01:02,160
now if you go to skepticzone.tv the

1614
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:04,440
webpage for the skeptic zone

1615
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:06,640
skepticzone.tv you will find at the end

1616
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:09,359
of this week's show notes a link

1617
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:12,480
to some videos by australian skeptics or

1618
01:01:16,309 --> 01:01:14,319
i should say featuring australian

1619
01:01:18,230 --> 01:01:16,319
skeptics actually they are by australian

1620
01:01:19,270 --> 01:01:18,240
skeptics and or featuring australian

1621
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:19,280
skeptics

1622
01:01:23,589 --> 01:01:22,319
over the decades where we've put various

1623
01:01:24,670 --> 01:01:23,599
paranormal

1624
01:01:27,990 --> 01:01:24,680
and

1625
01:01:30,390 --> 01:01:28,000
pseudoscientific claims to the test

1626
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:30,400
you can see various water divining

1627
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:32,640
documentaries listed there including

1628
01:01:37,829 --> 01:01:35,119
james randy in australia

1629
01:01:40,150 --> 01:01:37,839
some very old investigations regarding

1630
01:01:42,309 --> 01:01:40,160
magical water polarizers

1631
01:01:44,230 --> 01:01:42,319
and a very strange one indeed from

1632
01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:44,240
almost 20 years ago

1633
01:01:49,829 --> 01:01:46,559
where the claim was that

1634
01:01:53,589 --> 01:01:49,839
someone could hypnotize stem cells to

1635
01:01:54,470 --> 01:01:53,599
increase the breast size in women

1636
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:54,480
yeah

1637
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:57,039
that's all there have a look the link is

1638
01:02:00,789 --> 01:01:59,200
on this week's show notes

1639
01:02:02,069 --> 01:02:00,799
thank you to those people who continue

1640
01:02:03,829 --> 01:02:02,079
to support the skeptic zone at

1641
01:02:05,589 --> 01:02:03,839
skepticzone.tv

1642
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:05,599
well we've just been talking about the

1643
01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:08,079
uh the show notes if you go there and

1644
01:02:12,750 --> 01:02:09,839
click the link

1645
01:02:14,710 --> 01:02:12,760
the patreon and or paypal link the

1646
01:02:16,390 --> 01:02:14,720
subscription link

1647
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:16,400
you can uh help

1648
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:19,200
keep the show afloat if it was a boat if

1649
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:22,559
it was a boat you would keep it afloat

1650
01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:24,799
and the way this show keeps afloat is by

1651
01:02:28,309 --> 01:02:25,520
the

1652
01:02:29,510 --> 01:02:28,319
generous donations and subscriptions by

1653
01:02:31,270 --> 01:02:29,520
listeners

1654
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:31,280
just like you

1655
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:35,920
and if it is you thank you you

1656
01:02:39,510 --> 01:02:37,760
coming up on next week's show i speak to

1657
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:39,520
author john guy

1658
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:43,039
about his new book called think straight

1659
01:02:49,190 --> 01:02:46,559
an owner's manual for the mind promises

1660
01:02:51,430 --> 01:02:49,200
to be an interesting interview

1661
01:02:53,589 --> 01:02:51,440
also on next week's show i hope we have

1662
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:53,599
the australian skeptics news segment

1663
01:02:58,230 --> 01:02:56,319
written by tim bendum and read by adrian

1664
01:02:59,190 --> 01:02:58,240
hill there you are adrian there's your

1665
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:59,200
cue

1666
01:03:03,270 --> 01:03:00,720
get ready

1667
01:03:04,870 --> 01:03:03,280
and i will be reading a report i wrote

1668
01:03:07,109 --> 01:03:04,880
for the skeptic magazine here in

1669
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:07,119
australia about the uh

1670
01:03:13,750 --> 01:03:10,319
recent well some months ago recent mind

1671
01:03:15,589 --> 01:03:13,760
body wallet festival here in sydney

1672
01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:15,599
oh can't get enough of the mind body

1673
01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:16,400
wallet

1674
01:03:19,670 --> 01:03:18,400
but it does promise to be a very full

1675
01:03:22,069 --> 01:03:19,680
week for me

1676
01:03:24,950 --> 01:03:22,079
i'll be uh participating

1677
01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:24,960
in a new feature film i've

1678
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:27,280
scored some work i've scored some work

1679
01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:29,119
working on a new feature film

1680
01:03:32,950 --> 01:03:31,039
and maybe down the track i can tell you

1681
01:03:34,470 --> 01:03:32,960
more about that oh and for those people

1682
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,480
who were interested

1683
01:03:38,390 --> 01:03:36,400
who maybe heard ross

1684
01:03:40,950 --> 01:03:38,400
blotcher commenting on the fact that i

1685
01:03:43,510 --> 01:03:40,960
appear in the latest thor movie i went

1686
01:03:44,390 --> 01:03:43,520
to see the movie and indeed i am in the

1687
01:03:47,109 --> 01:03:44,400
movie

1688
01:03:49,510 --> 01:03:47,119
you can see me for all of one second i

1689
01:03:51,109 --> 01:03:49,520
think briefly you know in one of the

1690
01:03:53,829 --> 01:03:51,119
scenes

1691
01:03:56,710 --> 01:03:53,839
um blink and you'll miss it however

1692
01:03:58,470 --> 01:03:56,720
without any spoilers i play a sort of a

1693
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:58,480
greek god

1694
01:04:01,349 --> 01:03:59,599
briefly

1695
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:01,359
what a lot of fun that was

1696
01:04:05,190 --> 01:04:04,000
and a big um a big shout out to thor if

1697
01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:05,200
you're listening

1698
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,520
but for this week this is richard

1699
01:04:15,270 --> 01:04:09,599
saunders signing off from sydney

1700
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:17,029
you've been listening to the skeptic

1701
01:04:19,910 --> 01:04:18,480
zone podcast

1702
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:19,920
please visit our website at

1703
01:04:28,710 --> 01:04:26,150
for show notes contacts and to access

1704
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:28,720
the back catalog of episodes going back

1705
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:30,880
to 2008

1706
01:04:35,589 --> 01:04:32,880
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1707
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:35,599
on twitter at skepticzone

1708
01:04:41,109 --> 01:04:37,760
visit our facebook page or leave a

1709
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:41,119
review on itunes you can also support

1710
01:04:46,630 --> 01:04:44,400
the skeptic zone via patreon or paypal

1711
01:04:48,470 --> 01:04:46,640
the skeptic zone podcast is an

1712
01:04:50,309 --> 01:04:48,480
independent production

1713
01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:50,319
the views and opinions expressed on the

1714
01:04:55,109 --> 01:04:52,640
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1715
01:04:56,780 --> 01:04:55,119
of australian skeptics or any other